Incoming

Feb 17

Transcript

Libby Sinback [00:00:04]:

And I think that's why when people start chatting in a Facebook group, reading the Secondary Bill of Rights, reading comments on the r/polymory subreddit, it's at first tremendously comforting. It's proof that your feelings are valid, because many of us were taught that if you're feeling not great about something but the other person is fine, then you're ruining everything if you bring it up. So then you probably feel like you need a lot of justification to bring something up, and it probably feels doubly hard when you're in a new relationship and your partner has existing longer-term established relationships. They obviously know what they're doing, right? They aren't bothered by this. Why does it bother me? Why don't they see it? They must see it. And if they're doing it anyway, I must not have the right expectations. Then you find out, oh, this is actually a common experience. And almost nobody feels good being on the receiving end of it.

Libby Sinback [00:00:59]:

And there's some Instagrammer saying that it's actually unethical and rooted in white supremacy and colonialism. Thank goodness. Now my feelings are justified. And not only that, my partner is wrong. Welcome to Making Polyamory Work. Hi, I'm Libby Sinbeck, and I really want to thank you for being with me today. I'm committed to helping people who live and love outside the status quo have extraordinary relationships because relationships are at the core of our well-being as humans. I think love is why we're here and how we heal.

Libby Sinback [00:01:38]:

So I have had many requests for this episode. This episode is for folks who are the incoming partner in a new relationship where their partner has an established partner or partners. Now, some people use the term secondary partner to describe this person, but I will be for the entire episode using the term incoming partner instead, because while some people do practice polyamory in a hierarchical style, and some people do identify themselves as secondary partners, agreeing to this dynamic and prioritizing the established couple. Plenty of folks don't do that. And I still think this episode applies to them too, because there are unique things about being a newer incoming partner into an established dynamic. And, you know, the thing that would— people would say when they would ask me to do this episode is that so much advice about how to do polyamory seems really focused on established couples who are opening up their relationship. Or established couples who want to keep their relationship rather than talking about people who are coming into a dynamic like that. And that's true.

Libby Sinback [00:02:58]:

We do live in a, a world that centers the couple and that prioritizes longer established relationships over shorter relationships. And so, yeah, a lot of polyamory advice is directed at folks in that established dynamic who are struggling with the changes that a new partner or a new situation brings them, whether they're opening up for the first time or whether they're in a long-time open couple. I've done several episodes that speak to different aspects of this as well, including one about hierarchy, one about veto power, one about the one penis policy, as well as one about if you want to date as a couple. And so I get it, you're right, there's not enough attention given to someone in that incoming position, and I want to change that. So this episode is really about shining a light on what it's like to be an incoming partner and also how you can navigate some of the situations you might find yourself in. And my intention here is, if you're an incoming partner, I want you to be able to approach that situation and whatever might come your way, feeling empowered. Because a lot of what I see on Reddit and in polyamory Facebook groups and just generally on the internet is a sort of frequent theme of blaming the established couple for everything that goes wrong. Like it's 100% their responsibility to make sure that situation goes well.

Libby Sinback [00:04:34]:

And the person in the incoming position is just at their mercy. And has no control or agency or anything as to what happens. And while I'm not going to say that the established couple doesn't have a lot of responsibility, because if you've been listening to my podcast, you know that I do think that if you're in an established dynamic, you have a lot of responsibility to anybody that you bring into it. I also think, ironically, if you hold the position that everything is the established couple's fault, well then ironically, that means that we're continuing this dynamic of centering the couple by sending all of the advice and resources to that established partnership to tell them how to be good polyamorous citizens. And the incoming person is just stuck with like a buyer beware, like either you meet a good one or you find the red flags and run the other direction, which is almost kind of a little bit blamey on the incoming partner. Like if they do end up in a painful situation, they just didn't read the signs. They just chose poorly and didn't pay attention to their red flags and what a fool they're gonna feel they are. And I don't, I don't like that.

Libby Sinback [00:05:45]:

I really want this episode to not perpetuate that idea. So my intention is to equip incoming partners with what you can do that is more than just pick well, although picking well is important. I also want to offer you some things that you can do to take care of yourself. Things like what you can do if you find yourself in love with and in a relationship with someone who has an established relationship and who has some blind spots, who hasn't done all their work but is still basically fundamentally a good person. Because look, dismantling power dynamics and unlearning hierarchy and dealing with the cultural centering of the couple is an unfolding process, not something you either have if you have good ethics or you don't because you're a bad person. You might even, as I did, fall in love with someone completely new to polyamory and decide, okay, I'll say yes to being on this journey with you because you're amazing, which means I'm probably saying yes to being hurt by mistakes as you and your partner figure out what you're doing. You also might be new to polyamory yourself, and so you don't know what you don't know. Everybody was new once, and I think we get to make mistakes and correct and repair.

Libby Sinback [00:07:01]:

And actually, I think doing that is what builds beautiful relationships not doing everything perfectly from the beginning. And so I want to equip incoming partners with actual real tools that you can use as you enter an imperfect situation as an imperfect human. And I feel really fortunate that I have been on both sides of the equation, which gives me, I think, a unique perspective. I have been in that established relationship with newer partners, and I have also been the newer partner coming into an established dynamic. But before I jump in, I want to quickly share that every month I do an open community call. It's free to join, and really, we're on Zoom. We just spend an hour and a half hanging out together, people from all over the world, all stages in their journeys, and we talk about hard questions and undo aloneness together. And nobody in that room is perfect, not me, not anyone there, and we're all learning together.

Libby Sinback [00:08:03]:

And the next one is on March 17th at 7:00 PM Eastern. So if that sounds interesting to you, I put the link in my show notes and I'd love to see you there. I've also created a new workshop called What Actually Makes Polyamory Work, and I'm offering it on March 3rd at 7:00 PM Eastern and March 5th at, I think, 11:00 AM Eastern, but check the link in the show notes. This is a 2-hour workshop that is like a shot glass of what I know and have been teaching my clients and group participants for years. However, I'm not going to be talking at you for 2 hours with like a PowerPoint presentation. This is an experiential workshop. We're going to practice in breakout rooms, and you will come away with actual skills that you can use the very next day. It's neat, it's connective, it's fun.

Libby Sinback [00:08:54]:

You should come. Now to the episode. So, The way I'm going to talk about this is through 3 stories of 3 made-up partnerships, ecosystems, dynamics, what have you. Okay? These are not based on actual people's stories, but they're such common things that I see that they may sound familiar to you. The first couple that I want to mention are Ben and Jordan. So when Ben started dating Jordan, he didn't think that hierarchy would be a big issue. Jordan said all the right things. She told him she didn't believe in hierarchy.

Libby Sinback [00:09:38]:

She said that she and her wife were committed to autonomy and egalitarian polyamory. And she said that every relationship that they had stood on its own. And Jordan and her wife seemed experienced. Jordan's wife had another partner. Jordan had had other partners. And yet Ben's experience ended up being not exactly what he was expecting based on what Jordan told him. When they'd talk about plans, they always were tentative until Jordan could check with her wife. And it was hard sometimes to figure out when they could see each other because it felt like they were constantly working around Jordan's wife's plans, which always seemed to take priority.

Libby Sinback [00:10:19]:

Jordan was always apologetic when she accidentally double booked and had to change or cancel plans with Ben. And sometimes her wife would even reach out and apologize. But over time, Ben learned that plans with Jordan were to be held lightly. Jordan and her wife also had a lot of agreements in place that Ben had to work around, and some of which Ben didn't even know about ahead of time. Jordan and her wife had agreed together how many days a week they could have outside dates and that certain nights were always going to be just for them. They'd also agreed that they'd keep things equal. So if Jordan's wife didn't have a date on a certain week, Jordan couldn't schedule anything with Ben. Jordan's wife had also asked for no sleepovers or trips with other partners for the first 6 months, and Jordan was also expected to text her wife once during any dates with Ben just to check in.

Libby Sinback [00:11:08]:

They also couldn't be out about their polyamory, so any partners had to be kept on the DL, and there were certain places that Jordan was asked not to go with any dates just in case people saw them and got suspicious. When Ben felt disappointed, it was hard to know where to direct it. His connection with Jordan was loving and passionate, and Jordan made him feel really special when they were together. Jordan's wife was friendly, and they'd had coffee together a few times. Their relationship seemed healthy and loving as well. He'd even been included on some polycool game nights that were really fun. And yet something just didn't feel good. He also noticed how Jordan would talk about things when Ben seemed a little disappointed.

Libby Sinback [00:11:55]:

She'd say things like, "I can't go, sorry, my wife needs me home that night," or, "I think we have an agreement about that. I'll have to check with my wife and I'll get back to you," or, "Yeah, Ben, she just really isn't comfortable with this yet, so we're going to have to wait." There were other little information things too, like Jordan shared a lot of details about Ben and their relationship with her wife that Ben hadn't realized would be shared. Things that felt private between he and Jordan, but they were just shared freely with her wife, and then her wife would sometimes casually bring them up with Ben as though this was just normal. But it left Ben feeling oddly exposed, like parts of his relationship weren't even really his. Jordan had become a really important part of Ben's life. But he sort of felt like an accessory to hers and her wife's. He felt like he was always expected to accommodate rather than be accommodated. He felt like he was expected to be easygoing and flexible and just not need too much.

Libby Sinback [00:12:56]:

Jordan said that their relationship was just as important as the one with her wife, and Ben believed that the feelings were there, but the way things played out was a different story. Now, in this story, Jordan and her wife aren't being deliberately hierarchical. And yet, of course, there's a lot of hierarchical behavior that may be invisible to them but is really visible to Ben. And this can happen when long-established monogamous relationships open up. They may mean well, or at least I don't think they mean harm, but they're still using control-based agreements to help each other feel safe. Now, ideally, this couple would figure out that their agreements are actually pretty hierarchical, and if they're intending not to be hierarchical, they will need to make some changes. But the reality is that most people have blind spots, even the most experienced folks. But what we're here to talk about is Ben, and there is a trap that a lot of people in Ben's position fall into.

Libby Sinback [00:13:52]:

And y'all are probably going to come at me for saying this, but the trap is taking the victim position. What do I mean by that? You have decided that this couple or this partner or this metamour is doing things to you and that you have no power or agency in the situation. And so then you only have 3 choices: 1, to just put up with it, say nothing about the way this feels and just deal; 2, leave the relationship; or 3, hold them accountable by telling them all the things that they are doing wrong that are causing you hurt and demanding that they stop them right now. Option 1 really sucks because then you're going to be in a situation where you are unhappy and the relationship is likely to curdle from the resentment that you feel. Leaving is always an option, but if you really love this person, that might totally break your heart and break theirs. So you might think option 3 is where you need to go. Maybe it even feels like the empowered move, and I can see even how you get there because first, before you say anything, you're gonna doubt yourself because first of all, they're saying one thing, we're not hierarchical, and then doing another thing, things that are hierarchical or feel awfully hierarchical to you. Paige Turner, who writes the blog poly.land, calls this a sneakyarchy, and it can make you feel crazy and cause you to doubt yourself.

Libby Sinback [00:15:19]:

And it also feels lonely because you're experiencing these feelings by yourself and it isn't obvious to your partner at all why you're feeling the way you're feeling. And I think that's why when people start chatting in a Facebook group, reading the Secondary Bill of Rights, reading comments on the r/poliamory subreddit, it's at first tremendously comforting. It's proof that your feelings are valid, because many of us were taught that if you're feeling not great about something but the other person is fine, then you're ruining everything if you bring it up. So then you probably feel like you need a lot of justification to bring something up. And it probably feels doubly hard when you're in a new relationship and your partner has existing longer-term established relationships. They obviously know what they're doing, right? They aren't bothered by this. Why does it bother me? Why don't they see it? They must see it. And if they're doing it anyway, I must not have the right expectations.

Libby Sinback [00:16:16]:

Then you find out, oh, this is actually a common experience and almost nobody feels good being on the receiving end of it. And there's some Instagrammer saying that it's actually unethical and rooted in white supremacy and colonialism. Thank goodness! Now my feelings are justified, and not only that, my partner is wrong. I must tell them now so that they can fix their error, and side bonus, I will feel happier in this relationship and won't be hurting anymore. It makes sense. And can I tell you something? Because you feel powerless, because you don't feel seen in that moment. What you want is to make your partner see you with this mountain of evidence as to why they must. And that is actually trying to gain power over your partner by being right and righteous.

Libby Sinback [00:17:08]:

Because somewhere along the way, you probably learned that just feeling bad wasn't enough to get care. You had to fight to be seen and heard, and often then it even didn't work. The problem though with fighting from the victim position for what you need is that then your partner and your meta are villains, and nobody wants to be the villain. So they're likely to either get defensive, blame someone else, or blame you in some way. Or if they accept that they are the villain, then they're going to crash into shame, beating themselves up, which can lead you to have to set aside your own concerns in order to comfort them. Which means you still don't get heard or cared for. Or they may feel so bad and really want to fix things for you, so they use your righteousness to push their partner into making changes that that person isn't ready for and doesn't get to negotiate, with the intent of placating you, which will then make that other partner feel resentful towards you because now it's a power struggle. And instead of couple privilege being used to control the relationship, righteousness is.

Libby Sinback [00:18:13]:

It feels good to be right, and yet if you come at it from that place, I think it's a losing situation for everyone. Now, what if you didn't do it that way? What if just speaking about how you're feeling was enough? What if you approached the situation as though you weren't powerless? What if you held that your relationship also has power? I get that it might not feel like it does, especially when you're experiencing those hierarchical dynamics, And it is true that some couples are not interested in shifting out of their hierarchical behaviors, but plenty of times they're just stuck and they don't actually know what they don't know. If your partner truly cares for you and values you, they likely want the relationship with you to feel good so that you stick around. Most people who engage in hierarchical dynamics and say they're not are actually good people who are doing their best. And if they're not, If they have no interest in your feelings or making accommodations for you, you coming in all righteous isn't going to change their mind. But the people who are open to change, you may have to tell them, and the approach matters. If you approach with righteousness and judgment, it's not going to feel good to you, and you're probably not going to get the reaction you want. But if you approach with curiosity and compassion, assuming their good intent but also holding your hurt as valid at the same time, There's an opportunity for everyone to grow.

Libby Sinback [00:19:37]:

The key thing is to listen to and honor yourself and your needs first. Validate yourself first, and then holding your tender wounded parts, you can approach your partner. So instead of, when you said we couldn't have sleepovers, that's you and your partner making decisions for our relationship. That's hierarchy, which means you're hypocrites and you're behaving unethically. You might instead say, First, to yourself: Hey, this really hurts, and that really makes sense. I wonder about things from my partner's perspective. I wonder if they'd be willing to hear my perspective and maybe see if we could figure something else out. And then to your partner: Hey, I'm noticing this agreement that you have about sleepovers is really hard for me.

Libby Sinback [00:20:21]:

Would you be willing to get curious with me about it together? I'd like to understand more about where you're coming from and what your partner and you are intending with that agreement. And then after listening and understanding them really well, you can say, hey, can I tell you what it's like from my side of things? And then you would share. And I recommend leading with your feelings rather than facts, like that mountain of evidence, or criticizing your partner or your meta and their choices. Instead, you might say something like, hey, sometimes when you're over at my place and it's getting late, I really just want to stay with you. Like, that feels really natural to me, and that would be what I would want to do, and it feels like it's something that you would want to do. And it feels just really yucky inside of me to know that you are leaving because someone else told you you had to. Like, I can understand it if you really felt like you'd sleep better at home, or that you had something to do in the morning, But if it's just about making your partner feel better, it feels like that's coming at my expense, and that really hurts. It makes me feel less important and less valuable, and I don't think that's how you want me to feel.

Libby Sinback [00:21:32]:

And then you might state a hope for the relationship, like, hey, I'm hopeful that we could have the kind of partnership where if it's late, one of us could crash at each other's place without having to cut things off or drive home sleepy. I'd also love it if sometimes we could sip coffee together in the morning at my kitchen table. Would you be open to exploring that with me? If then they get defensive or shut down or blame their partner, or if their partner has a meltdown about this possibility, then you might need to say something like, hey, I love you and our relationship, and I want the kind of partnership where we can talk about these tricky things together. I get that it's hard, but are you and your partner willing to work toward that with me? I'm willing to give you some space to build the capacity to get there, or even I'm willing to work on this with you if you're willing to work on it with me. And listen, if you're groaning right now, I do get it. I get that me suggesting that you first regulate your own feelings and then ask for what you need from a place of curiosity and compassion, with also an interest in understanding where your partner and their partner are coming from, is hard. It's like really hard. It's actually asking a lot of you.

Libby Sinback [00:22:45]:

And it probably feels a lot better to just sit in that victim position and complain. And it, in general, it's really vulnerable to ask for what you need when you're not sure if you're going to get it or not. It can feel really unfair that in this situation where you have less power, you have to advocate for yourself with patience and curiosity while you're hurting and feeling mistreated. And hey, I'm going to be with you on this. It's not fair. It would be so much better and easier if the people in the established relationship just knew what to do and knew exactly how to take care of us. And yet they're coming from a completely different place, and you both need to understand each other if you want to co-create something that honors all of you. Remember, this is someone you love, and they exist in an ecosystem with people they love.

Libby Sinback [00:23:37]:

So if things are going to change, it's probably going to feel a whole lot better if they change in a way that is loving and kind to everyone in that situation. And if you approach it from that place, and what you get is a lot of pushback and defensiveness and shutdown, then that may be a situation you have to walk away from, but at least you did your part of showing up kind, curious, and compassionate. Hey, uh, real quick before we get back to the episode, if you've been listening to this show for a while and you've been nodding along but then feeling stuck in making these ideas part of your reality, well, I made something for you. It's a workbook based on the most popular episodes of the show with simple practices and reflection questions so that you can apply this stuff to your life. Just head to libysinnback.com/workbook and grab your copy. Okay, story 2: Greg and Chris. Greg and Chris were over the moon for each other, and Chris was wonderful. Chris was attentive, communicative, and emotionally available.

Libby Sinback [00:24:47]:

And Chris's two partners, Greg's metamores, were welcoming and inclusive. They spent time together as a polycule, but also Greg had plenty of one-on-one time with Chris too. Chris initiated relationship check-ins. On paper, he was doing everything right, and yet Greg felt anxious. Part of it was how new everything was. He and Chris hadn't been together that long, so they didn't have a lot of shared history. They didn't have any routines or rituals. They'd only said I love you a few weeks ago.

Libby Sinback [00:25:17]:

They hadn't even had a fight yet. The new relationship energy between them was clearly strong and mutual, but sometimes it felt more like a roller coaster he couldn't get off of. His heart jumped at every text, and his stomach tightened whenever it had been too long since he'd gotten a reply to his. When Chris went home to his long-term partner in the morning after a date, Greg always felt a pang of jealousy. It wasn't that he wanted to live with Chris or that he resented his metamour. He just envied the certainty he imagined they shared, a certainty that he just didn't have. And Chris could see that, and he tried to help. He reassured Greg more.

Libby Sinback [00:25:54]:

He regularly told Greg how magical he felt their relationship was. He told Greg that he mattered just as much as his other partners, even though their relationship was newer. He tried to point out whenever he was prioritizing Greg in hopes that he would see that Chris really valued him. And sometimes Chris would anticipate Greg's anxiety and try to prevent it, sending extra messages when he was with his other partners, offering explanations that Greg hadn't asked for, and checking in constantly. This actually made Greg feel worse for his wobbly feelings. Greg appreciated the care, but it also made him feel like his insecurity was something to manage rather than something to understand. He started monitoring himself. Am I being too sensitive? If he's doing everything right, why do I feel this way? Maybe I'm just not evolved enough to do this.

Libby Sinback [00:26:43]:

He really did his best to hide his wobbles from Chris. He didn't want to be too much trouble or drag things down. Instead, he really just tried to be chill. He said he was fine when he definitely wasn't. He started avoiding hanging out with his metamores because it just made him feel even more insecure. They seemed so easygoing and experienced and confident, which just made Greg feel worse about himself. He also became more vigilant about any perception that Chris was unhappy with him and tried to preemptively fix whatever it was. Chris could tell something was up, but when he'd ask, Greg would say that he was fine and change the subject.

Libby Sinback [00:27:17]:

Chris could tell that wasn't true, and Chris was a fixer, so it made him uncomfortable to not know what was up so that he could fix it right away. So sometimes he pressed, and then Greg would get defensive and shut down, leaving them feeling distant, which was the last thing either of them wanted. Greg started to wonder if he was cut out for polyamory at all. Okay, so y'all, insecurity is a normal part of being in a new relationship. Say it with me: insecurity is definitely a normal and reasonable way to feel when you're a new incoming partner coming into an existing dynamic. Being new means you don't have things established yet, and when you're an incoming partner, you're new with someone who has established things with other people. And our culture tells us to compare and compete in romantic relationships, and that conditioning can be a powerful current to fight against. So look, you are not weak or broken or not cut out for polyamory for feeling insecure.

Libby Sinback [00:28:24]:

You're human. Where things go sideways is not the feeling of the insecurity. It's where you are not kind and compassionate with yourself when insecurity shows up and instead treat it like something to hide or a problem to fix. Now, is it possible that you might have some baggage that is a part of what's fueling your anxiety? Sure. Lots of folks have some past pain around things like not being chosen or being excluded or being dropped for someone better or feeling unworthy, or as I talked about in the previous example, having their feelings minimized or dismissed if they didn't have sufficient evidence for why they should be taken seriously. So it's definitely a good idea to take a look at yourself and meet your insecurity with that compassionate curiosity so that you can see if there are any wounds you need to tend to. Notice I said compassionate curiosity, not how can I fix this and make this go away so that I can prove to myself and my partner that I'm capable of being polyamorous with them. And the reason to meet your feelings with compassionate curiosity are many.

Libby Sinback [00:29:29]:

One, if there are some past wounds that are getting kicked up, It's so important that you listen to them and hang with them. You having difficult feelings isn't a downer, but dropping all your unhealed childhood trauma onto your partner and expecting them to fix it definitely can be. And the thing about those unhealed parts, if we don't bring our adult selves into kind connection with those younger, more vulnerable parts, they will run things. They will act out the story that they believe is true. Which has the effect of turning it into a self-fulfilling prophecy a lot of the time. 2, like I said, being in a new relationship is inherently insecure. There's just so many unknowns. You're still discovering things about your partner and yourself.

Libby Sinback [00:30:18]:

You're creating your relationship together as you go, and there's just no certainty. And our nervous systems are wired often to remain anxious and vigilant in the face of that uncertainty. We don't want to be surprised. We don't want to be blindsided. We don't want to be made a fool of. So we scan for threats. And here's the thing about feelings like anxiety, fear, insecurity: if you stuff them down, you will end up acting them out because they want you to listen. And if you don't, they get louder and they act out in your subconscious mind.

Libby Sinback [00:30:53]:

But if you turn toward your feelings with compassionate curiosity, bring them to light within yourself, That is called regulating your emotions. Your shortcut to doing this is noticing the feeling, whether it's a thought, a sensation, an image, and just say, "Of course. Of course I'm feeling this. Of course I'm having that thought. Of course I'm scared. Of course that's hard." The more you can hold your feelings with of course-ness, the more you will be able to work with them creatively. It's not the feeling that's the problem, it's how you deal with it. 3.

Libby Sinback [00:31:30]:

So not in this story that I was telling, but sometimes there's actual fuckery going on. Your insecurity might be telling you about a real shitty thing that is happening that you need to pay attention to, and you can't identify and address that thing if you're both not listening to the wisdom of your feelings and letting them run you which means you're going to be activated, which means you're not going to have access to your slower processing prefrontal cortex, which is where you might be able to advocate for yourself or seek support. Turning towards your feelings with compassionate curiosity will help you know what's behind them, whether it's 1, 2, or 3. And sometimes it's a little of 1, a little of 2, or all 3 at once. Maybe there's some unintentional fuckery going on that is stepping on a landmine from your past, and you both need to tend to those old wounds and let your partner know how they're impacting you, or set some boundaries to care for yourself. And just as an aside, if you have a partner who's insecure, guess what doesn't help? Treating their feelings like a problem to be fixed, or minimized, or talked out of. All that does is confirm to them that, yep, I definitely shouldn't be feeling this, and yep, my partner can't accept this about me, so I better hide it or fix it. And look, I know it can suck if your partner feels insecure when you are doing everything you can to be a safe person to them.

Libby Sinback [00:32:49]:

But as one of my colleagues, Morgan Burch, said so eloquently, their feelings are not your failure, nor are they their failure. They're just feelings. You can help your partner best by meeting them with compassionate curiosity too. They may even be scared or hurting by something you said or did that you had no intention would be experienced that way. But if you can just move out of that blame and into holding that your partner might be struggling, and that that doesn't have to mean you did anything wrong, it will go a long way. And if they aren't ready to share with you, give them space and let them know you're there for them when they're ready. Also, I gotta tell you, the thing that creates a secure relationship isn't what you think. It isn't the absence of difficulty.

Libby Sinback [00:33:35]:

It's not ease. It's not not having needs. It's actually having difficult moments, and then repairing and coming back into good relationship with each other. Like, this has been scientifically shown. Moving through a difficult moment well together says, "Hey, we can handle hard things, and that means our relationship is strong and resilient." And you don't get there by hiding your difficult feelings. Y'all, it just kills me for people to be struggling with tender feelings like insecurity and then beating themselves up for it. That doesn't do anyone any favors, and it definitely doesn't help you move through it. Be kind to yourself, and after holding yourself with that compassionate curiosity, it's okay to ask your partner to hold it with you and ask for care, not fixing.

Libby Sinback [00:34:21]:

Trusting your partner with the hard stuff and having them say, yeah, I'm still here, that's a huge part of creating a secure relationship. Okay, last story. Sam and Ryan. When Sam met Ryan, Ryan was really upfront about his situation. He was longtime married, and they were also business partners. He had kids, he had other partners, and an active social life. His time and capacity were limited, and he definitely didn't have space for another primary partner. Sam didn't think they wanted that either.

Libby Sinback [00:34:56]:

They'd been polyamorous for a while at this point, after a really tough breakup a few years back with their previous long-term partner. They weren't looking to ride the relationship escalator. I mean, maybe they'd want a primary partner someday, but for now they wanted to follow connections and allow them to unfold organically. And then Sam fell hard in love with Ryan. Big and deep and way more than they expected to. They both did. And it was magical, beautiful, heart-opening in ways that Sam never thought they would feel. But none of that actually changed what was possible between them.

Libby Sinback [00:35:36]:

So Sam found themselves wanting more, and when more wasn't available, it was painful. A big thing was that Sam wanted more time together, just the two of them. Because Ryan had a lot going on, he was often only available for a date like one night a week, and sometimes not even that. Sam wished they could wake up with Ryan multiple days a week. But even when Sam and Ryan had a date, Ryan often had to go home if it was a weeknight because of early morning school drop-offs for his kids. Sam's heart twinged with jealousy knowing that Ryan's nesting partner got so much time with Ryan, even if it was mostly business and kid logistics. If Ryan made plans to go to a concert with a friend or set up a date with someone new on Field, Sam would feel deeply upset and unloved and unimportant. Knowing that Ryan was choosing not to give them that bit of free time that felt so precious to Sam.

Libby Sinback [00:36:29]:

Ryan was also deeply in love with Sam, just as deeply in love, and their time together was really precious to him, even though it wasn't very much. The time Ryan was able to carve out for Sam was hard to come by because of how full his life was. So Ryan felt that that should be evidence for how much he cared about Sam. He could see that Sam wasn't happy, but he felt he was giving as much as he could. But he was scared to lose the relationship. So even though Ryan was stretched thin, he tried harder. He tried to squeeze in more time, a lunch here, a quick coffee date there. He tried to integrate them with his spouse, his friends, his other partners.

Libby Sinback [00:37:08]:

He reassured Sam of how important they were. He talked about how special their connection was. He said things like, I hope you can see how much you mean to me when Sam would express their sadness or hurt over not being able to see him more. Sam felt caught in an impossible bind. If they asked for more, they felt needy and demanding, and sometimes if they got it, Ryan would seem exhausted and maybe even a little resentful. If they accepted what was available, they felt quietly devastated. It was just really painful for someone who meant so much to them to not take up a reciprocal amount of space in their life. Sam could see that Ryan was trying So sometimes they just felt ungrateful wanting more.

Libby Sinback [00:37:53]:

They wondered if they were asking too much, or if the pain they felt was just insecurity they needed to work through. Meanwhile, Ryan kept trying to make Sam happy, which included not really being able to accept it when Sam wasn't happy. If Sam complained about not seeing Ryan, Ryan would point out how much he was doing to make them happy and include them in his life, when Sam really wanted more alone time with Ryan. Which made Sam feel even more guilt, but also some anger at not really feeling seen. Sam started to wonder if Ryan was really being honest about how much he valued them, since he didn't really seem to get it. Ryan was beginning to wonder if he'd ever be enough for Sam. When they fought, it was often about how much Ryan did or didn't care. This is one of the hardest situations I think you can run into in polyamory.

Libby Sinback [00:38:41]:

—when the love between you and another person just doesn't match what's available for the two of you to create with that love. And this can happen if your partner hasn't been upfront about what the actual capacity they have is, so then you like feel safe to fall head over heels, and then you find out later that there are a lot of things that just aren't available. But it can also happen even if you know the deal and accept it from the beginning, but then discover actually, it's not enough for you or not enough for them. Sometimes the connection that you have is asking that your relationship grow in a certain way, but the other person's capacity or yours means that it just can't. This can be so painful. And a lot of times when we're in that kind of pain, we want some way out, but often it's a trap. One trap you can fall into when you find yourself here is to assume that just because you have a deep connection, what's available should change. That room should just be made when the love is that big and intense.

Libby Sinback [00:39:47]:

That's what happens in monogamy. When we fall in love, we clear the decks. But that's just not how it works when you already have a whole ecosystem. And I'd also like to make the argument that clearing the decks in monogamy has a lot of long-term negative consequences, like loss of friendships and community. But whatever. You can also fall into the trap of assuming that deep romantic love means a relationship of mutual caregiving. That's also what we're taught in monogamy world. A romantic partner is not only our lover, but the person who's going to drive us to the hospital in the middle of the night and help us fix our broken sink.

Libby Sinback [00:40:21]:

And some folks even think the romantic connection entitles us to that kind of care, and if the care isn't available, then that means we aren't truly valued. I think it makes sense to feel this way, but again, sometimes the time and space for that caregiving element just isn't there with someone who has a lot of other commitments. And that doesn't mean they don't care or can't be part of your network of care. They just might not be able to be your main source of care, and that might not match the level of importance they have in your heart. Also, I gotta just say, it kind of infuriates me that we've set things up this way, that often we can only access caregiving through either family or romantic partners. What if for whatever reason you just don't have those things? You still need care. Everyone does. I wish our society was set up with more elaborate care networks that included friends, queer platonic life mates, community members, chosen family, etc.

Libby Sinback [00:41:15]:

If we're going to be creative about our romantic life, maybe let's consider being creative about how we give and receive care too. But you know, at the same time, if you want a romantic partner that's also available for caregiving and mutual aid, Like, you deserve to have that. You just can't assume it's available just because there's a lot of love. A third trap you can fall into is mistaking commitments for hierarchy. If your partner has freely chosen to commit a lot of their time, energy, and attention to their family, to other partners, to their work, whatever it might be, that's not the same thing as someone outside of their relationship controlling them. That's them saying, hey, these things are important to me and they are where I'm going to spend my time. No matter who your partner is, no matter what their relationship constellation looks like, they get to choose how they want to prioritize their time, energy, and attention. It makes sense to me though, that if what you're wanting is more time or more availability or more flexibility, and that's just not there, and it hurts, you can want to blame someone again.

Libby Sinback [00:42:25]:

And in this case, you might try to blame the existing structures in place, but those structures in this case are your partner's life, the things that light them up, the things that are important to them that they value. And if you're resenting them, then you're resenting important parts of your partner and who they are., which may be a sign this just isn't going to work for you. And the last trap you can fall into is equating time and energy and attention with value and importance. And I can understand why that is. Time, energy, and attention are some of our most precious resources, and where we spend them can feel like a vote for what is important to us and what isn't. But sometimes we just have limitations. And that doesn't mean that you aren't loved and valued and appreciated and magical and all those things. At the same time, you don't need to accept a relationship that doesn't give you the time, energy, and attention that you need in order to feel happy and satisfied.

Libby Sinback [00:43:28]:

I just think that's something totally separate. I just think it's so important that all of us hold that in polyamorous dating, especially when you connect with people who have established commitments, and whole ecosystems, you can end up deeply in love with someone whose bandwidth just doesn't match the size of the feelings you both have and the way that you would most want to express that. And it can be painful to face that. I think there are ways to hang in a relationship where there's a mismatch like this, and I'll talk about that in a sec. There are two things to watch out for that I want to name first. These happen when that person in that established relationship is either aware, or you make them aware, that they do not have available the type of connection that you truly want from them, and they don't want to lose you. They can end up doing any of these 3 things to try to keep you, but that can actually cause you harm. One is they can try to meet as many of those needs as possible that you have while still falling short, like they're going into fix-it mode.

Libby Sinback [00:44:29]:

And this can cause 2 problems. One, they're likely to burn out because they are exhausting their capacity beyond what they can actually do And number 2, it can be hard to allow yourself to feel dissatisfied because you can see how much they're trying to give you. They clearly love you. Could you just need less and be happy with what you have? Another thing that can happen is they can try to talk you out of how you're feeling. This feels even worse to me than fix-it mode because it can have the effect of you doubting your own feelings and your own reality. And the truth is, in their mind, they love you so much. Your relationship is incredibly valuable to them, and they may genuinely believe that if you could just see the relationship through their eyes, see how much effort they're making for you, see how much they care, you would feel differently. This kind of, if you would just see it differently behavior is like saying, hey, my intent is good, so that should erase my impact.

Libby Sinback [00:45:24]:

It's not great when someone is refusing to step into your shoes and understand where you are coming from. But instead tries to talk you out of your experience. And lastly, they may struggle with jealousy. If you date other partners that may be more available for what you want, then you might break up with them. So they might try to control you so that they don't risk losing you. It's an understandable fear, but I don't think that's kind. If you love someone, you should want them to be happy more than you should want them to be with you. None of these behaviors are designed to hurt you, but they can make a hard thing harder.

Libby Sinback [00:45:58]:

And I wanna make sure that I'm not just making it about capacity. Like, there are actually so many ways that you could fall in love with somebody and have a deep, beautiful connection that has an incompatibility or a mismatch that can make it really hard to make it work. Like, you may want a nested life partnership, and this person may not be available for that. You may want an integrated style of relating, like a kitchen table thing, and your partner and their partners prefer a more parallel style. You may want to see someone a few times a month, and your partner may only want to see someone with more frequency than that. You may be open to partnerships only if they include sex, or only if you can both be out, and your partner might not prioritize sex in the same way or need to be out the way you'd want to be. So the first thing that's really important is to be really, really honest about what you want for yourself. And what your non-negotiables are, and be prepared to honor that, even if it means that this beautiful person you've met doesn't meet those non-negotiables.

Libby Sinback [00:47:02]:

And then second, ask yourself, if there is a mismatch here, are you willing to accept that you will be disappointed or unsatisfied with a relationship because it isn't quite what you want? Because sometimes you are getting enough of what you want from the relationship that it's okay to grieve what you won't get. But if you haven't really reckoned with that, if you haven't gone through the grief and the acceptance, you might get caught in a struggle loop like Sam and Ryan. This is so tricky because falling in love with someone feels really rare and special, and we're fed the myth that if you love each other enough, you should be able to make it work and be willing to overcome these kinds of obstacles. And definitely nobody should feel disappointed or grief if there's big love. But when we're facing grief, sometimes we end up turning that grief and disappointment against ourselves, making it mean we're unlovable or unworthy. You can also turn it against your partner, making it mean they don't care about you or don't really love you. It can feel better in the short term to blame someone, either you or them, than accept hard realities. But if we allow that grief and disappointment then we can move through it to acceptance, and then we can face our reality with curiosity, creativity, and kindness.

Libby Sinback [00:48:21]:

And if you were gonna ask me what my advice for monopoly couples is, it is exactly this. If you're going to say yes to a monopoly dynamic, you're saying yes to nobody getting exactly what they want and dealing with that with a lot of grace and humility and compassion, and probably heaps of self-care and coping practices along the way. I know y'all are probably tired of me saying how important it is to grieve well. I am telling you, it is really key here if you want to hang with this type of relationship, but alongside it, you need to also appreciate what you do have. Francis Weller said it better than me. Weller wrote a book called The Wild Edge of Sorrow: Rituals of Renewal and the Sacred Work of Grief. And on one of my community calls, a participant shared this quote of his, and I want to share it with you now. The work of the mature person is to carry grief in one hand and gratitude in the other and be stretched large by them.

Libby Sinback [00:49:19]:

How much sorrow can I hold? That's how much gratitude I can give. If I carry only grief, I'll bend towards cynicism and despair. If I have only gratitude, I'll become saccharine and won't develop much compassion for other people's suffering. Grief keeps the heart fluid and soft. Which makes compassion possible. And that doesn't mean things can't change, because sometimes they do. Sometimes the hard edges of what can't be soften, and sometimes openings arise where it felt like before there were none. But if you haven't gone through the process of grief and gratitude, which can take a while, by the way, and instead you are spending a lot of time in your relationship just wanting things to be different and fighting for change, and either fighting reality or making that reality about how much that person does or doesn't love you or how worthy you are, That's just creating more pain, and it's going to crowd out all of the joy that you're fighting for in the first place.

Libby Sinback [00:50:15]:

So to recap, the best advice I have to offer incoming partners is: number 1, when you experience power dynamics that don't feel good, avoid taking the victim position. When we take the victim position, we make our partner the bad guy and we make ourselves righteous. When really this is a relationship where you both have power, and more importantly, this is someone you love, not someone you want to be fighting against. Be willing to ask for what you want and speak up for yourself, but with kindness toward your partner and your ecosystem, and with an intention to also understand where they're coming from. There are things that may seem obvious to you from where you're sitting that may not be obvious to your partner where they are. Use your power collaboratively. Assuming your partner's good intent. And hey, if they still refuse to see where you're coming from or insist on doing things that hurt you, that's valuable information that you can act on appropriately.

Libby Sinback [00:51:11]:

Number 2, be kind to yourself. If you feel insecure, scared, or anxious, meet those feelings with compassion and curiosity and ask your partner to do the same. That is the best way to keep them from being in the driver's seat and instead to understand what's really going on and what you truly need to feel better. Sometimes it may be about the inherent uncertainty of newness. Sometimes it may be about some past wounding that you need to tend to, or it may be something that's actually crappy that's happening to you that you need to alert your partner to. You can only know if you listen to yourself rather than beating yourself up for being a messy human. And also going through a bumpy moment together and moving through it and getting to the other side of it. That's actually what builds secure relationships.

Libby Sinback [00:51:58]:

Number 3, be honest with yourself about what you want and be prepared to face reality. If you connect deeply with someone who isn't available for that, you're not a fool for staying and you're not selfish for leaving, but know that either way you're facing grief and the only way out is with grace and gratitude. There's honestly so much more I could say about being an incoming partner, but I wanted to keep it down to what I think is the most valuable. I hope what I've offered here helps you if you land in anything resembling the stories I've shared. Again, I'm not letting established partners off the hook for doing their work, and I hope that if you are in an incoming role, you don't forget your power, because I think there's a lot you can do if you're willing to stay brave, human, and kind.

Libby Sinback [00:52:48]:

Thank you so much for joining me today. If you have any thoughts about this episode or a question you'd like me to answer on the show, I would love to hear from you. You can find me on Instagram at That Polyam Mom, or you can find me on my website at LibbySinback.com. You can also leave a comment on the episode on the Spotify platform, and I read all of those and reply.

Libby Sinback [00:53:09]:

To most of them.

Libby Sinback [00:53:11]:

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Libby Sinback [00:53:13]:

You feel like you'd like even your support.

Libby Sinback [00:53:15]:

I do this for a living. I am a coach and I help individuals, couples, and groups have amazing relationships. You can find out more about my offerings on my website.

Libby Sinback [00:53:26]:

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Libby Sinback [00:53:28]:

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Libby Sinback [00:53:38]:

If you leave a review or a comment because that helps more people find the show And thank you so much to everyone who's already done that. Making Polyamory Work is created by me, Libby Sinback. It's edited by the team at Assistify Coaching and hosted on the Spotify podcast platform. Ioana Luca manages the website and posts the transcripts.

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